There seems to be a growing belief among Seminole Nation that it’s time to leave the ACC for another conference. Yesterday, it was announced that FSU had a $2.4 million shortfall on its 2012-2013 athletic budget. This is embarrassing and only further shows why FSU needs to leave the ACC.
The ACC is just not invested in football. This was obvious when they added Pitt and Syracuse. They turned down West Virginia’s application, much to alleged chagrin of FSU and Clemson. The ACC is run by the Tobacco Road schools, with a UNC alum as it’s commissioner. This is a league that caters to it’s blue-blood basketball schools, but not to the football schools who actually bring the most money for the conference. For example, the SEC does a perfect job of scheduling it’s marquee games. Last year they scheduled a bye week for both LSU and Alabama before they played each other. For FSU, the ACC scheduled the Clemson game directly after the game with Oklahoma. What did they do to Clemson? They scheduled them to play FSU after their game with Auburn, the defending champions. This year, they schedule FSU to play Clemson in the 4th week of the schedule? The only marquee games the ACC seems to care about are the bi-annual match ups between UNC and Duke in basketball.
Recent events suggesting a 4-team playoff would also be disastrous for FSU if it stayed in the ACC. The current proposal would have the four best teams in the country going to a final-four format to determine the national championship. What this will inevitably lead to is a final-four dominated by the SEC, Big Ten, and to a lesser extent, the Big 12/Pac-12. These conferences are the most politically powerful in college football and will influence who gets which spots. What’s to stop a 11-1 UGA team from getting to the final-four over a 11-1 FSU team due to the Noles belonging to a weaker conference? A playoff without automatic qualifiers for conference champions will lead to the ACC getting weaker, and the stronger conferences packing their teams to the final-four. Not having the ACC conference champion qualifying for a final-four spot means A LOT less revenue coming in to FSU and other ACC teams. In turn, the financial gap between SEC teams and FSU will only grow, leaving us in the dust.
Though many of us would like to jump to the SEC, there are several reasons why it probably will never happen. For one, there’s the much talked about “alliance” between UF, UGA, and South Carolina, where they would each vote against adding a university that resides in their home state. UF, as we all know, has throughout its history tried to stymie FSU’S growth. When FSU started its football team in the late 1940s, it was UF that fought to control FSU’s athletic program, calling it the “Tallahassee Branch of the University of Florida”. No joke, you can read more it here, (http://nolefan.org/summary/fsu_uf.html) . SEC teams are content to use the “they’re in the ACC” argument against us to recruits as it’s really the only advantage they really have over us. Despite this, FSU has been recruiting like gangbusters with Jimbo Fisher at the helm, so why would the SEC give up this advantage and let us in? The SEC has made it clear that they will only expand to increase their TV footprint. This means they will not go to the state of Florida to add another team.
The only conference that seems like a legitimate option for FSU is the Big 12. This would have been unthinkable at this point last year, but the Big 12 did a reasonably good job saving the conference. They added TCU and West Virginia, which is of course a more impressive coup than the ACC’s annexation of Pitt and Syracuse. I know some are concerned about travel expenses, and this is a valid argument. FSU has to travel to Boston College, Maryland, and will soon have to travel to Syracuse and Pitt. These are not exactly nearby areas. In theory, this would be the new Big 12:
West Division: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, (another team)
East: FSU, Clemson, West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas State, Kansas, Louisville
In this hypothetical situation, FSU would travel to several places that are just as close if not closer than several places in the ACC. Remember, that a big problem for FSU is the fact that ACC fan bases just do not travel well, and leave empty seats for Doak Campbell Stadium. Is it not pretty much a guarantee that the fan bases of West Virginia, Louisville, and other Big 12 teams like Texas and Oklahoma, would bring way more people to Tallahassee than ACC teams? Would that lineup not surely bring more FSU fans to the stadium? I think so. Another argument against going to another conference would be the $20 million FSU would have to pay to leave the ACC. This would be a major stumbling block, but I think it could be done if the amount to leave were split between FSU and the Big 12 (out of future earnings). FSU would be making a lot more money from a re-negotiated Big 12 conference deal with ESPN (as would probably happen if FSU/Clemson and others were added), which would help in paying off the ACC. Today it was reported that the Big 12 hired Stanford AD Bob Bowlsby as their new commissioner, who is said to be an intelligent leader and a football guy through and through. While the Big 12 is bracing itself for this new college football landscape, the ACC’s insularity and lack of vision will be its downfall.
How 'Bout Them Noles! 
You did an incredible job with this. In all honesty, the Big 12 probably is the best option, and since our current conference is screwing us over, the ACC is probably the worst one.
Travel cost, ruining rivalries, losing academic prestige, as the Big12 is falling apart in that regards, is a horrible idea for Florida State or Clemson. Florida State just needs to win a few more football games, I think they’re headed in the right direction. The Big12 is a burning anthill.
Yeah it’s really burning. The Big 12 just agreed with the networks to an extended 13 years Grant of Rights agreement. Sounds pretty stable to me. Is the ACC BB conference that stable?
The Big XII has an option to offer an adjusted payout based on annual travel miles. So, there are opportunities to make FSU, Clemson and others wholes in that respect.
This is a much more thought out piece.
http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/05/forget-rumors-reasons-why-fsu-would-never-join-the-big-12/
I haven’t laughed so hard in a long time. Scott has about half his facts skewed in the wrong direction. It’s obvious what his agenda is.
Take it from a Mizzou fan, you want NOTHING to do with the Big 12. The grass always looks greener until you dig to the root of the problems. They have a tiered payout to schools. Here’s how the conference works: University of Texas demands the majority of everything and if they don’t get it look out. The Longhorn network caused 4 schools to leave. Look at the Big 12 at your own risk.
1. Texas dominates the Big 12 and Duke/UNC dominate the ACC. Texas loses power the more elite schools the Big 12 schools add. The main difference is that the Big 12 cares about football and the ACC doesn’t, and that’s huge for FSU fans.
Craig, you have no idea what you are talking about. There is equal revenue sharing in the Big 12 now for Tiers 1 and 2, EXACTLY THE SAME as the SEC does things.
Exactly MU fan. That’s why Kansas got the largest pay out from the Big XII last year. MU will find out exactly how green the grass is; I’m guessing they won’t be winning 10 games a year like they did in the Big 12 the past 4 of 5 years.
The Big 12 did away with unequal revenue sharing. Tiers 1 and 2 are equal. Tier 3 is for each program to sell as they please. If Missouri had any problems with inequality they could have done something about it while they were in the Big 12. But they supported it, and now we’re to believe they were against it all along? Sell that lie somewhere else. The Big 12 will likely have a tiered scale in place in regards to playoff participation, but it’s not unreasonable or unfair: highest tier of $ goes to playoff participant, tier 1 to top 15, tier 2 to top 25, tier 3 everyone else (that’s what’s been floated around on the interwebs). Don’t trust anyone from mizzou. They caused the entire Big 12 realignment fiasco when they dropped to their knees in front of Delaney, and they had ZERO to complain about in the Big 12.
Oh, and, and a mizzou fan, you shouldn’t throw around the “grass is always greener” comment so cavalierly. You should gaze upon your reflection and say the same. You’re going into someone else’s conference who only wanted your TV sets, who don’t and won’t consider you part of their culture, and where you won’t sniff a lick of a success on the field. Heck you guys hardly left a legacy behind in the Big 12.
Again, don’t believe what you hear from missouri, texas a&m, nebraska, colorado, or texas. They were all big proponents and advocates of the unequal revenue sharing they were miraculously against all of a sudden when they wanted to leave.
The conference is a hell of a lot better now with the whiners gone. There’s still ut to deal with, but adding programs like FSU and Clemson will help bring more balance to the conference. We share revenue equally and we’ve signed a Grant of Rights so we’re not going anywhere.
I can tell you that fans in the Big 12 are anxious and excited about the possibility of FSU and Clemson joining for many reasons. You both would be welcomed with open arms.
Take it from a Texas fan, Craig and Mizzou are crybabies. Texas is one school with one vote. If you check the record you’ll find that Mizzou voted WITH Texas on almost every issue. Even if what crybaby Craig says was true, Florida State University is NOT Missouri, you needn’t defer to ANYONE. Join us!
Speaking of roots and grass, Craig, why don’t you Mizzou folk quit whining about mean old Texas and fix that career-ending disaster you call a turf!
I believe most schools in the Big XII considered MIZZOU to be a cancer of sorts. Generally they suffer from irrational delusions of grandeur. Good riddance.
It’s not like UT holds some trump card that gives them a 51% share of votes. A&M and Nebraska were voting right along side UT on conference issues that gave to the rich and took from the poor. With every school’s TV rights signed over to the Big12, we finally have a group that’s committed to making the conference work. And if Bowlsby’s reputation holds true, this conference is only going up. FSU and Clemson joining up would be huge…plus, it would be a nice “screw you” to the SEC
Don’t listen to this Mizzou fan…as a Sooner fan let me tell you, the Big 12 is an excellent football conference, unless you’re a team that whines about Texas’ influence, but if you’re a decent school that puts out a decent product on the field you’ll have every opportunity to succeed just as much as the Longhorns.
Exactly! Listen to the Okie here! You can choose to whine about Texas, or you can follow OU’s lead and man the f*ck up. And if UT bothers you that much, you’ll have every opportunity to stomp our arrogant asses up and down the football field, as those cursed Okies seem to do every few years. Bottom line, all you need are the tools to succeed. FSU has proven time and time again that they can take it from there. BigXII can provide those tools, the ACC cannot.
Hell Frank, K-State whoops up UT’s ass just about every time and were just about the smallest fish in the pond resources wise.
This is the typical mizzou lie. It was mizzou’s whoring itself out for Big 10 admission that started all of the realignment. You were turned down not once, but twice. Nebraska left for the Big 10 long before the LHN. Colorado left to keep from being left out of a possible Big 12 defection of six teams to the Pac 10 which would not have included them. A&M left to simply get out from under the UT shadow and to forge their own identity. Their issues with the LHN fall at the feet of their AD. He was offered an opportunity partner in a Network which showcased both UT and A&M, but he felt it would not be financially beneficial. Then once he started hearing the numbers being tossed around by ESPN, he suddenly wanted in and was told too late. Mizzou left because basically, the Big 10 made it clear you would never be welcomed there, the Pac 10 didn’t want you and you were forced to come crawling back to the big 12 on your hands and knees to kiss @$$. Once A&M left, you saw an opportunity to whore your selves out again to a new john. The SECs taking you in had nothing to do with your athletic programs, it was simply for access to a new TV market. Instead of pointing fingers, why don’t you finally start taking responsibility for your own actions as the ones that started all of this realignment madness in the first place.
Yes take it from a Missouri fan that turned tail and today’s news makes Missouri look like a bunch of fools. 13 year extension on the Big 12 Grant of Rights was approved with the networks today … 2025 Missouri
Not a FSU fan, but the Big 12 is not the best possibility. You think the ACC is screwing you, wait until Texas gets a hold of you. Texas will give you a lesser share than them, and still take their 300 million from ESPN and not play with you. You need to suck up to the SEC and mend fences. Unless its about pussy competition then yes go to the Big Bevo conference.
Suck up to the SEC? They’re the problem, not FSU. They have pretty much said they won’t add us and that’s that. “Pussy competition”? The Big 12 with FSU/Clemson is a much better conference than whatever the ACC has
Equal revenue sharing. Nice try though. Any other bits of information you copied and pasted from the aggie message board you’d like to try and pass off as your own thoughts?
Another poser who can’t hang. Texas gets the same share as everyone else. Texas has the same number of votes as everyone else. And as for the 300 million from ESPN, well, that’s what ESPN feels 20 years of UT’s Tier 3 programming is worth. If you join the BigXII, Florida State University will also be able to keep their Tier 3 programming to monetize as they see fit. Do not listen to these lesser-thans! You’re Florida F**KING State, and you bow and scrape for NO ONE!!
Another snake oil salesman, who moved their goods to the SEC. As a K-State fan take it from someone who knows the cancer Missouri really was to this conference & A&M well that’s one for the comedy hour. Had Nebraska known how much things changed I seriously doubt they would have left, then just maybe the BIG would have finally done the Big 12 a favor by taking Missouri off everyone’s hands. Colorado was a much better fit for the PAC as most of their alumni roots exist there. Now that the conference has grown to a strong unified conference we are very excited to have Florida State, Clemson & any other ACC FB teams ready to join the best conference in America, that plays by the rules. Anything is possible. The competition is great & our conference even surpassed the SEC last year in OCC wins, 27-3, if that tells you anything. Welcome to the Big 12 Seminoles.
We’re ready when you’re ready…
If the B12 goes beyond 12 teams with FSU and Clemson, wouldn’t FSU insist on Miami being added? Can’t see FSU allowing Miami and Florida to both be non-conference games.
Would also think the Big Ten would strongly consider FSU if it looks like several teams might leave the ACC, especially if Virginia Tech tries to go to the SEC. While that conference normally insists on AAU schools, FSU is big enough, Florida is important enough, and the academics close enough to be a target. FSU already has a plan to reach AAU status and the Big Ten could help in that regard.
No, I don’t think FSU would insist on Miami going to the Big 12, but it might be preferred. If push comes to shove, FSU would rather drop the Miami series before the UF series.
I think the Big Ten is in pretty good position right now and will only expand if it’s a last resort, unless Notre Dame wants to join. FSU is rated the same academically as Nebraska, so you’re right in that the academics argument against FSU couldn’t be made.
in addition, the big xii is willing to pay half the payout amounts for incoming schools …
That is false, they only helped WVU because they got 23 million from MU and TAMU combined. Plus WVU has to pay back the extra 10 million they borrowed. Thus a lesser share of revenue.
WVU will make far more revenue than they would have in the BEast. WVU will pay that exit fee off in pretty short order Jenny, so don’t you worry your pretty little head about it. WVU made what we out here in the real world call a “sound business decision.” Look it up.
and i wouldnt be surpised if that $20 mil is negotiated to a lesser amount just like has occurred for every other school has left their conference …
yeah… that has a chance of happening as Bill Mauer becoming a catholic.
Join us. Come to the BigXII. You are far too powerful to be wasting away in the ACC. Join us!
It was not long ago that FSU was demanding that the ACC expand to 12 with Syracuse. Then FSU fans said that the No votes by Duke and UNC were proof that they hated football. Now that Syracuse is added it means that the move is only about basketball? That would mean that FSU was 100&% wrong in 2002-03, and if FSU was 100% wrong, then FSU could be 100% wrong about any moves made by anybody today.
After the ACC expanded to 12, FSU, along with GT, Clemson, and Maryland, demanded that the divisions split the schools in FL and NC into separate divisions. FSU got its wishes with divisions, including that it be in a division with Clemson. FSU said that such divisions were necessary to maximizing the football quality of the ACC.
How has FSU, which got everything it demanded from expansion, including getting the Syracuse it demanded just a few years later, been lorded over by ‘basketball schools’?
If neither Pitt nor Syracuse, say, had ever won a National Championship in football, or had a Heisman winner, and if neither had any Hall of Fame football players, you might be able to make a case that adding them was about basketball only, even though FSU was demanding Syracuse for football reasons in 2002.
There are upsides to being dumb enough to sign up for what even Arkies and Texas Aggies and Nebraska bug-eaters were smart enough to flee at the first opportunity: you won’t keep leading the ACC in football recruiting and losing half the time to little private schools like BC and Wake Forest.
Jake, are you using history of 25 years ago in the NC and Heismans? Or would that be 30 years ago?
The Big 12 has stabilized itself over the last few months
1) Added TCU and West Virignia
2) Agreed on Revenue Sharing on Tier I and Tier II TV rights
3) Signed new TIer II television rights with FOX thru 2023
3) Hired Stanford AD as Commissioner. Has PAC 12/Big 10 experience on a variety of issues and more importantly an outside voice who doesn’t have emotional ties to existing Big 12 schools
4) On the verge of new TIer I contract with ABC/ESPN with escalator clauses for expansion. With expansion, new TV deal between Tier I and Tier II rights that could push per team payout in the 22-25 million
5) Tier III rights are still owned by individual schools and could be pooled together for separate cable deal that could increase overall TV deal even more
With the new playoff formats being discussed, the Big 12 would have tied the SEC for the most playoff berths if these formats were in place since the inception of the BCS, using either a top 4 overall plan or conference champion plan. That should also be a huge consideration if the revenue distribution for playoff funds is based on performance.
Many Missouri, Aggy, Nebraska fans will blame Texas for the downfall of the Big 12, but the fact remains those schools voted with Texas on several issues that they later wish they could have back.
1) Nebraska and Texas A&M consistently voted against Tier I and Tier II revenue sharing.
2) At the inception of the Big 12, the conference voted 11-1 in favor of moving the headquarters to Dallas. Nebraska didn’t like this as they felt it made the league “Texas” centric, despite the Big 12 championship game having been played outside of Texas for 7 of the 15 years it was played and the Big 12 basketball tournament being played in Kansas City most years.
2) The conference unanimously voted against the idea of a conference TV network in 2007. Kevin Weiburg, then the Big 12 commissioner tried to push a conference network, however since he had other ideas and got full blow back from conference members, he went to join the Big 10 conference to help start their network. He later joined the PAC 12 to help get their network starated
3) When it came time to decide on a new conference commissioner, Texas wanted Jack Swarbick, current ND Athletic Director. Other schools voted on Dan Beebe who ended up getting the job and “leading” the Big 12
4) The conference unanimously has always voted to allow schools to control their own TIer III rights. Schools like Kansas and Oklahoma State actually had lucrative Tier III contracts, especially Kansas with their basketball program. The Tier III issue only came to light once Texas signed a deal with ESPN.
I think it’s safe to say now the conference as a whole as learned some lessons now and is ready to move forward with new leadership.
I’d like to go a step further… here’s my dream scenario…
West Division: POD1: UT, TT, TCU, Baylor / POD2: KU, KSU, OSU, OU
East Divsion: POD3:Louisville, ISU, WVU, VT / POD4: FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami
I’d rather the ACC add UConn and ND and do this:
North
POD 1: BC, UConn, Pitt, Syracuse
POD 2: MD, UVA, VT, ND
South
POD 3: UNC, Duke, WF, NC St
POD 4: Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami
Then do a 2 round playoff to determine the ACC Champ.
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Dude, I don’t know how you can make the argument that UF has ever tried to block FSU’s chances of getting in the SEC. Y’all had your chance to join 20 years ago. The SEC asked, you got scared and said no, and look at you now. Florida wasn’t going to block it. So don’t complain about your games against Duke, BC, and Maryland. The reason you didn’t join the big boys back when you had a chance is because you’d rather play basketball schools in football instead of Tennessee, Florida, and UGA. Bobby got his wish.
Such a complete failure, FSU only went to 5 National Championships since joining the ACC LOL
Here is what I’m going to tell you. The guy that first reported FSU and Clemson to the Big 12 is now saying his source has confirmed it is all but a done deal. he said the announcement will be made after the BCS Playoff is finalized.
The Big 12 is the only place FSU can go. UF won’t let them in the SEC and so there is no hope there. FSU has no other option. The Big 12 is a lot greener than the ACC. Ignore the MU trolls and the aTm trolls. They tell you that Texas runs the conference when actually right now, it looks like Texas doesn’t run it, they are all agreeing on things. Texas has been against the whole expansion thing and it is looking like the rest of them are going to overrule them. Anyone who wants to blame LHN for the “Death of the Big 12” is an idiot. The Big 12 lost people because 1. Beebe didn’t do anything to help anyone. People claim Nebraska left because they didn’t get equal shares, but Nebraska voted against the equal revenue. Nebraska left because they wanted more money and the Big 1G offered that. 2. More money. The Big 12 can’t compete with the Big 1G or the SEC in money (As of right now) and that is why the other teams left.
The whole GT thing is still little chance. From everyone I’ve heard, it will be FSU and Clemson, then Louisville and Maryland. Maryland because the Big 12 wants the DC market and because it is close to WVU. Keeps traveling down.
The Big 12 would look like this
West: Texas, Baylor, Texas Tech, OU, Ok State, Kansas and KSU
East: TCU (Because they are the new, they will get thrown East) WVU, ISU (going east, although they fit west, they won’t mind playing in the east) Louisville, FSU, Clemson, Maryland
If they go for 16 look for them to add GT and Miami. They will add VT over Maryland but everyone expects VT and NCST to go to the SEC
Well said. The exact teams I hope we end up with.
Being a Maryland fan that would suit me just fine. Sick of the All-Carolina-Conference! Big Ten may want MD and that would work with ND, Rutgers, and Ga Tech, but not with UNC, Uva, and Duke. I would rather be away from them totally! Let’s make this happen and make it happen SOON
You are correct int hat statement. From what I’ve heard, the Big 1G is waiting for ND to commit and then look at others. I have a feeling though, Delaney wants to stay at a low number because he isn’t one to expand unless it benefits both parties.
And just wait til July, that is when the official word will come out.
If GT were to leave, the 2 conferences I’d likely see them going to would be to either the SEC or Big 12. And with the SEC not really wanting anyone else right now, the only other choice would be the Big XII.
-Arkansas left after having to dealing with tu for so long.
-Nebraska left after having to dealing with tu for so long.
-Colorado left after having to dealing with tu for so long.
-Texas A&M left after having to dealing with tu for so long.
-Oklahoma and OKSt TRIED to leave after having to dealing with tu for so long. But they are tied together and noone wants both of them.
Heck even tu tried to break away and join the Pac-12 but couldn’t.
Do yourself a favor and try and strengthen the ACC. Help rebuild Pitt and Syracuse football wise. They have the capabilities to be stronger and were in the past. That’s a far better bet.
-TCU and WVU are nothing like Syr and Pitt. TCU has a one in a million situation in football (and no other sports) and everyone knows it won’t last. They get none of the real talent from Texas and now have to play a semi-big boy schedule. They will drop back to irrelevant soon. What the heck was WVU doing joining the Big12? They are a middling Beast team at best. Nice programs here and there, but why travel soooooo far. I drive to Texas once a year from MD at Christmas time for 2 weeks. Its two-10 hour driving days. Its far and not a place to travel to 4-5 times a year. That was ignorant, regardless of the money from the conference.
Good luck.
Just ignore everything written above this post. It was posted by a mental pygmy, consumed by irrational hatred and a massive inferiority complex. The gentleman who posted above believes that all male cheerleaders are good, and pretty ladies in short skirts have no place on a college football sideline. He believes that crew-cutted, khaki-clad men lined up pecker to arsehole and squeezing their balls on national TV is awesome. He believes that pestering other fans to remove their hats while they just try to watch a football game is perfectly acceptable behavior. He believes that pulling swords on opposing teams’ cheerleaders is worthy of praise. Simply put, you do NOT want to listen to any advice offered by an aggie. There is no greater self-defeating force on planet Earth than the kookie f*cks of College Station, TX. The next intelligent decision their athletic department makes will be the first in decades.
The good news is that they are no longer in the BigXII, so that’s another good reason for you to join us. Since FSU does not choose to saddle themselves with outdated, off-putting “traditions” like those I just described, I don’t think you’ll have the same issues competing in our conference that Texas A&M did.
LMAO!!!!!!
Good Lord, aggiebones. I read your post a little more closely and it just gets worse. A few notes:
1. Stay in the ACC and try to help rebuild Syracuse and Pitt football? In a conference that has made it clear they don’t give two sh*ts about football? THAT’S your advice?
2. Both TCU and WVU would mop the floor with the aggies, and you have the audacity to speak of them with derision? Those two teams can boast accomplishments in the last 5 years that TAMU hasn’t seen since the 1980s. How many BCS bowls has TAMU won?
3. I find it humorous that you call the BigXII conference lineup a “semi-big boy schedule” considering the fact that TAMU football accomplished exactly squat while a member.
4. Did you know that air travel is not only faster and more comfortable than driving, it’s actually safer? WVU will be making a lot more money in the BigXII, so they can afford to fly to Texas for their visits.
5. Having to dealing … nuff said.
it’s obvious Aggie knows nothing about TCU. They are much more than FB. They have one of the better baseball teams in the league. Their only real weakness is basketball. Just another one of the disgrunted A&M Trolls that made one of the biggest ignorant moves in college sports.
In addition, Arkansas left, because at the time they were living in the Texas League, which basically what the SWC was at that time. With the variety of footprints we have now I’m not sure Arkansas would have ever left the region. Fact is many Arkansas fans I know wish they were in the Big 12, because they don’t like the SEC at all.
“Middling Beast team at best”?? Who are YOU trying to kid? Middling (whatever that is) teams don’t go 3-0 in BCS games. The only thing correct in your above statement is that TCU and WVU are nothing like Syracuse and sPITT. Both of those teams are living off of their glory days of LONG AGO. WVU is heading forward and moving upward.
“a middling Beast team at best”?? Who are you trying to kid?? What “middling” (whatever the heck that is) team goes 3-0 in BCS games against SEC, ACC, and BIGXII competition? The ONLY thing correct in your comment above is that WVU is NOTHING like Syracuse and sPITT. They are both leaving off the glory of their collective pasts. WVU is moving forward with a great program. Try and keep up would you?
living**
You’re full of it. When was the last time (or any time) that Pitt or Syracuse ever placed in a BCS game? And isn’t it interesting that WVU is UNBEATEN in the 3 BCS games it has played. Pitt and Syracuse will not help strenghten the ACC football conference to move any higher than their present 6th place standings.
Aggie Comment… Need I say more?
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ISU fan here,
1) Aggies are idiots. They hate Texas. They’ve always hated Texas. That’s all you need to know about their move. This was all about their long standing hatred of Texas, not anything that Texas did to anyone. They wanted to be King Shit in the Big 12, and when they couldn’t, they took their ball and went home. They voted alongside Texas in the early days of the league to block equal revenue sharing.
2) Nebraska is the same way. They voted against equal revenue sharing and then ran away to the B1G because they had equal revenue sharing. Classic hypocrisy. They hated that the rest of the Big 12 wouldn’t let them have partial qualifiers, and it really hurt their program. Plus, they could never beat Texas. They just left for more money.
3) CU is a better fit in the Pac and their move wasn’t about some beef with Texas or anyone else.
4) Mizzou is absolutely crazy as an institution. They wanted in the B1G, couldn’t get in, and just took the first available train out of town to save face.
5) I really hope however these divisions break down, we get to keep some Big 8 schools in our division. I’m looking forward to new additions and getting revenge on FSU for the 2002 game (you all know Wallace was in) but we’ve been playing KU and KSU every year for a century. Don’t want to lose that.
Looking forward to the possibility of the Noles in the league. You’ll like it. Some of the most passionate and hospitable fanbases in the country.
Hey ISU fan… OK State fan here… And you nailed it!
Texas fan here… Thanks ISU fan for setting the record straight.
NFL Hall of Fame
Pitt 8
WVU 2
Consensus All American
Pitt 49
WVU 11
College Football Hall of Fame
Pitt 24
WVU 7
National Championships- all time
Pitt 9
WVU 0
(ap poll era)
Pitt 2
WVU still 0
Pro Bowl Apperances
Pitt 109
WVU 31
-since 2000 (wvu’s best decade ever)
Pitt 23
WVU 6
AP Poll
weeks at:
#1
WVU 0
Pitt 21
#2
WVU 1
Pitt 15
Top 5
WVU 32
Pitt 70
Top 10
WVU 77
Pitt 125
Where’s your category about BCS Victories??? I know WVU has 3 wins—Sugar, Fiesta, and Orange—-Tell me about Pitt!!!
Believe they have NEVER played in one!
Pitt was in the 2005 Fiesta Bowl, lost Utah 35 – Pitt 7
but they tied for the Big East Title with 3 of the other teams 4 teams of 7 won that title and Pitt got in on a bad call at that though
how about your stats based on the last 20 years, that is what is relevant now not pitts 8 national titles before WW2 not how well their players do in the pros, pitt has no fan support, their claim to fame in the last 20 years is a 10-3 Car Care Bowl season or the 35-7 Fiesta Bowl thrashing, since the modern era of college football started (1950) WVU has a winning record over Pitt btw
how about some recent stats over the last 20 years because when we are talking about conference realignment we only care about recent history, yes Pitt has had more success as a whole, but in recent history Pitt has been a non factor year in year out
Record
WVU 160 – 83 – 2
Pitt 116 – 123
Head to Head Record
WVU leads 14-6
Bowl Games
WVU 16
Pitt 10
Bowl Wins
WVU 6
Pitt 4
Major Bowls (Now known as BCS)
WVU 4
Pitt 1
Major Bowl Wins
WVU 3
Pitt 0
Top 10 Finishes
WVU 4
Pitt 0
Top 25 Finishes (Coaches and/or AP)
WVU 8
Pitt 3
Outright Conference Titles
WVU 2
Pitt 0
Conference Titles (Co or Outright)
WVU 7 (2 before Miami BC and VT left)
Pitt 2 (both after Miami BC and VT left)
Final Fun Fact because you LOVE to talk about the programs as a whole
Total Wins in Program History
WVU 701 ranked 14th all time (1 of only 14 programs in FBS history to have 700 wins)
Pitt 678 ranked 20th all time
And since expansion includes basketball WVU is one of only 6 programs to be ranked in the top 25 in total wins in both Football and Men’s basketball
plus 7 of Pitt’s “9 national championships” came before they ever had a top 25 poll, they really didn’t have a unified way to claim any national champion.
See.. here’s exactly what i was talking about… living in the past… were you even ALIVE for any of the national championships? What has sPITT done in say… the last 10 years?? heck lets even go with 20?? Have fun in the ACC (All Criminal Conference) you should fit well there… joing BC as a bottom feeder. sPITT can go to hell, we’re going to the BIGXII.
Kirk Bohls, who is the sports journalist who best knows Texas sports, and the university as a whole, says that the new Big 12 commissioner must appease Texas.
Seeing the various Big 12 schools that must pray that Texas stays and does not run off other members because they have no other place to go reminds me of family members of a guy divorced 5 times swearing that all his exes lie about him, and even if it is all true, he has changed anyway, so you need to marry him right now and make our family happy.
Kirk Bohls is a hack who will type anything he has to in order to sell newspapers. Take everything he says is a giant clod of salt.
*WITH a giant clod of salt. Wish there was an edit function. 😀
Kirk is an idiot sometimes.
Jake, Kirk Bohls knows what to say to sell newspapers (a declining media) in Austin, TX… nothing more.
Don’t listen to anything that fucking windbag says.
I don’t blame WVU for joining the Big 12. At the time, both the Big 12 and the Big East were the shakiest conferences in terms of stability, and the Big 12, I think, has taken several steps to increase their stability, but let’s not ignore what happened.
1. Texas led the way for the PAC-16 in 2010. People seem to forget this ever happened. Larry Scott negotiated with Texas first before he ever talked to any other Big 12 school. Texas fans will tell you it’s because of what Mizzou said about the Big 10, but Texas was talking to Larry Scott long before this had happened. (In an interview, the original Big 12 commissioner said when they were forming the conference, Texas threatened to leave for the PAC-10 at that time unless several demands were met on their behalf.) Texas may have one vote, but they wield a lot of influence because without them, there is no Big 12. You could argue a lot of things, but if Texas left the conference, the conference would die.
2. Texas tried to leave the conference twice in the last two years. The LHN blocked their way out, as Larry Scott put it, it was a headache none of the PAC-12 Presidents wanted to deal with.
3. I don’t blame Colorado for leaving, PAC-10 was a natural fit for them.
4. The Big 12 had an agreement that in their third tier rights only one football game would be shown for each school. The LHN agreement with ESPN required a minimum of two. For A&M, it became clear Texas was going to do what they wanted regardless of how anyone else felt, and they could afford to buy material from Tier 2 rights because ESPN is actually responsible for the channel, and they have the money to do it. The LHN is still attempting to add football games so they can be picked up by more providers.
5. Calling Texas committed to the Big 12 is a little revisionists. It’s more like they don’t want to go independent because of the scheduling headaches, and the Big 12 is the only conference that’ll allow them to keep their LHN.
Kirk Bohls wrote this week that the No. 1 job of the new Big 12 commissioner is to keep Texas happy, which will keep the conference together. Meaning, Texas won’t leave if they’re happy.
And there will be no Big 12 Network without Texas and OU, because the other states outside of Texas are very rural and low population in the Big 12.
No one can argue that the SEC will not mean more money and exposure for A&M. The Big 12 exposure is regional in general, while the SEC has national exposure every week. If FSU could join the SEC they absolutely would, for obvious reasons.
If FSU fans want to join the Big 12 they can, the travel will be a headache week in and week out but if Clemson came along it could possibly be workable.
Anyway, point is Texas is king in the Big 12. The GOR doesn’t even threaten them because if they leave the Big 12 will dissolve anyway. The other schools that are left don’t have a problem with this because they have nowhere else to go. As long as you’re ok with that, join the Big 12.
I hope that FSU makes the move to the Big XII, a more football centric and viable conference……..not be mention that the monetary rewards would be all so good. Move and bring Clemson & VPI along also.
Don’t ever let Virginia Tech (aka Vocational Tech) near the Big 12…..Vo-tech is a duplicitous, usurious entity that has an over-inflated image of itself, an attitude without resume or portfolio to back it up…..Vo-tech’s administrators begged WVU to help usher it into the Big East in the early 1990s and when it became semi-good, its fans and officials started acting like they were too good to be there…..
WVU fans will long remember how Vo-tech officials stabbed WVU and other Big East schools in their collective backs when they bailed to the ACC…..first joining a Big East suit against the ACC while all along practically fellating the ACC domos to let them in…..
Now the Vo-techians are looking down their noses at the ACC…..the most recent conference they begged to get in…..
That attitude from them is predictable…..no, make that inevitable…..it’s indicative of and a residue of Vo-tech’s misplaced and unwarranted arrogance, condescension and sense of entitlement…..
Vo-tech is not trustworthy…..it is manipulative and opportunistic in a bad way…..long-term relationships mean nothing to it…..it will screw you in a new york minute if its decision-makers think it will provide an immediate gain…..and, by the way, its sanctimonious fans are every bit as rude and confrontational as WVU fans ever thought of being…..
Plus, they are hacks…..some fraternity members in blacksburg some time back torched a couch after a big win and and burned down the frat house…..apparently they were unaware that it’s wise to take the couch off the porch when you set it ablaze…..amateurs…..
WVU fans as a rule look down on Vo-tech for the above reasons and on general principle, because principle doesn’t seem to be an operative word there…..
Take words from the wise from people who were inflicted with having to deal with such an untrustworthy, sycophantic-when-it-has-to-be-yet-deceitful group of people as those that oocupy Vo-tech…..
Avoid them…..
Avoid Vocational Tech, its leaders and camp followers…..we don’t want them or need them…..
They ironically may soon be desperate to leave the ACC they happily cut throats to join and come knocking, but we don’t need them or want them…..If the shoe was on the other foot, they would scoff…..we should scoff at them…..
Vo-tech would be a better fit in the SEC, anyway…..in the SEC, ethics aren’t — shall we say — a priority…..
Also heard the Vo-Tech voted AGAINST letting WVU into the ACC last year. Thus WVU would probably return the favor (VOTE NO) about Vo-Tech getting into Big 12.
Bohls is just stirring shit. Barry Tramel does the some damn thing.
I don’t think the Big 12 schools have to kiss up to Texas anymore than the B1G has to kiss up to Ohio State or the Pac has to kiss up to USC. Most leagues have one or two programs that comprise the majority of their value.
GreAT POST, thank you,,,
Money talks , BS walks
ACC = basketball conference, 15 million per for tiers 1,2,&3
Big12 = football conference, 20 million plus for tiers 1 and 2 only
yall decide
Great article. I have to say that if you just interchanged WVU from FSU, this article could describe much how we felt as a member of te BE. It’s a basketball conference that looked at itself as a football power and someday, somehow the nation would realize their folly and realize just how good we were. For one magical Thursday night in New Jersey, they were right. After that game when Rutgers defeated Louisville, we had a powerful conference. WVU was fighting for a national championship, Louisville was strong, as was Rutgers. It gave the brass in the BE offices a leg to stand on. However, that leg broke after that year. The now former commissioner of the BE did nothing. WVU stood by the BE for way too long. It took Pitt and SU to leave for us to go. The BE was a sinking ship when VT and Miami left. So we felt the same as you at FSU…
Hopefully, you will join us here. Yes, in this case, the grass IS greener on the other side.
On a side not, I have been so (for a lack of a better word) surprised how we have been welcomed. It’s fantastic to hear how other schools can’t wait to come to my home state. Instea of tired old jokes about us.
So… Here’s to the Big 12! Here’s to FSU and Clemson joining and here’s to Almost Heaven.. The West Virginia Mountaineers!
Your fellow ACC team is thinking the same!The ACC has a terrible track record in non-conference games, and especially in the Orange Bowl or on national stages. The whole country knows it. Our bowl tie-ins suck already. They perceive the ACC as weak, and your perception is your reality. The number of NFL draft picks the ACC generates every year is solid, but the Saturday viewer doesn’t care about that. We will have the BCS rankings or some type of RPI system to determine the 4 teams, but unless the ACC Champion is undefeated I find it hard to believe they will get into the playoffs consistently.http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2012/5/2/2995047/how-does-the-death-of-the-bcs-affect-clemson
What if Clemson and FSU were both offered spots in the Big XII? While I’m old-school, and would prefer regional conferences, this possiblity is on the table. Aside from Texas, the other schools there are concerned about the money. Texas is just so greedy that they want every dollar on the planet. Texas would be more concerned with the SEC making inroads into Texas for recruiting purposes with A&M leaving. The conference renegotiated a deal last year for $130 M per season, and will be doing it again this season with the additions they’re making. That renegotiation is ongoing.
Texas fan here. If the Big 12 is divided into divisions again, I do not think UT and OU will be in the same division(they are both glad to be rid of the lopsided south/north competition)—they could still play annually in the manner of the Big 10 rivals matchups, and both might still be able to play in the championship game.
Actually Bennie Don as a K-State fan I could see something like TCU and Baylor being sent to the east with some cross-rivalries between OU & FSU; Texas & Clemson (orange rivalry); Kansas & West Virginia (John Brown Shootout) for an examples. This way OU & Texas could maintain their RRR yet have yearly games with Florida & South Carolina The conference needs to act more as one, and not the us and them attitudes during the north and south divisions we used to have. Putting TCU and Baylor in the east would come a long ways in helping do that. This would give both FSU and Clemson regular games in the Dallas / Fort Worth area & excellent exposure for recruiting too. Also keep in mind all Texas schools lives and dies football and baseball.
As for this myth of Texas controlling the Big 12, consider the election of Dan Beebe as commissioner. Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and A&M all supported Beebe as commissioner, whereas Texas (and a couple of other schools) was opposed to Beebe and favored present Notre Dame AD Swarbrick. Texas didn’t get their man, because they have but one equal vote. That speaks to Texas’ ability to control the conference. Doesn’t look like total control to me. And in hindsight, the four who left – Nebraska, Colorado, Missour, and A&M – all left with their choice as commissioner at the helm and running the show. Instead of blaming Texas, they should have blamed themselves for their lack of foresight and bad choice in choosing Beebe as commissioner. They should have listened to Texas.
Get off of Texas as being the controlling Czar. The conference is in equal sharing for Tiers 1 and 2. Tier 3 allows everyone to add to their funding however they want. This is not controlling, this is the future. Credit Texas for being visionaries by going against the grain in how things were done in the past.
You guys can’t even win 11 games in the poor little ol acc. Why are you worried about getting left out of the playoff system.
Right, because FSU hasn’t won 11 games before LOL.
It isn’t beyond the realm of possibility that Pitt and Syracuse could one day return to football glory. I mean, any school that can put out a Floyd Little, Larry Csonka, Jim Brown, Art Monk, Donovan McNabb, Marvin Harrison in Syracuse’s case and a Tony Dorsett, Mike Ditka, Dan Marino, Hugh Green, Mark May, and Larry Fitzgerald in Pitt’s case can’t be all that hopeless. Face it, the Big 12 is a douche-bag league that almost went the way of the Big East if not for the luck of the Pac 12 deciding not to take Oklahoma, etc.. The grass, my friends, isn’t always greener.